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January 16, 2003 06:28 am ET - research by AlFansom
The Effect of MB on Spell Damage
AlFansom mailed me on Ken about a project which he was working on to catalog the damage of each spell. He even managed to get a pretty good estimate on what the effect of Mage stats are on the damage of a spell.

Here is the URL to his work in progress: http://www.foundationsedge.net/myspecialpages/spellresearch/SpellReseach.html.

In summary, he seems to have demonstrated that the damage roll of a spell works by having a "base damage" (see the table below) and then your Magic Bonus (MB) determines how much extra damage you could inflict.

Spell Damage = Base Damage + (Magic Bonus x Level of Spell)

Here's an example. Call Lightning has a base damage of 26-73 HP per cast. If you have a MB of 3, since Call Lightning is a level 5 spell, you could inflict an extra 3 x 5 = 15 damage, increasing the range to 26 - 88. The minimum never changes though, only the maximum. This, obviously is NOT how a weapon works.

Now, pop a Potion of Wisdom, and you get +2 MB. This makes the damage range of Call Lightning expand to 26 - 98. An extra +10 per cast! So, the higher level you the spell is, the more a change in MB affects it.

Magic Bonus (MB) is determined by your INT and other items. However, it has nothing to do with your level. A level 40 mage with 18 INT has the same MB as a level 1 mage with 18 INT. Based on his results, it seems that level doesn't matter, only MB does. However, he only had 3 different levels in his results, and his research is directed towards MB not SP, so don't interpret anything too deep by that.

This is a work in progress (and determined by experimentation, so the numbers below may not be perfect. Don't read TOO much into it.) These are all corrected to reflect the effects on 0% MR. Remember that MR reduces this damage, and so does Elemental Resistance.

SpellLevelBase Damage
Energy Bolt11-13
Ice Dagger12-13
Wind Shuriken12-16
Fire Arrow22-12
Stalac27-11
Lightning310-33
Frozen Cloud314-26
Fireball48-29
Earth Jail416-24
Cone of Cold533-58
Call Lightning526-73
Eruption641-57
Sunburst637-79
Freeze722-71

Good job, AlFansom!

January 16, 2003 06:32 am ET (#1)
FAHAD
Loyal Fan

54 posts
10-12-02

HAHA NEW STUFF

January 16, 2003 06:32 am ET (#2)
jokulhaupz
Loyal Fan

7 posts
09-17-02

Interesting. . now I want to make a mage

January 16, 2003 07:01 am ET (#3)
Luffarmasken
Loyal Fan

97 posts
05-02-02

Nice work.

Does anyone know the exact bonus of casting a spell like Cone of Cold on a fire egg? Not a exact number but a range or something?

January 16, 2003 07:31 am ET (#4)
amer
LC Admin

864 posts
07-11-01

Luffarmasken: A fire egg (120 HP) dies in about 4-5 hits with Frozen Cloud. This would put each hit at about 24-30HP per hit on a Fire Egg. Since Frozen Cloud does 20 HP average, that would mean that there is a 20-50% bonus for using water on fire. I would guess that Cone of Cold could kill a fire egg in
2-3 hits.

January 16, 2003 07:44 am ET (#5)
h2ombre
Loyal Fan

333 posts
02-28-02

He tries to predict damage w/ 25 int. However, MB doesnt increase for every point of INT past 20.

January 16, 2003 09:02 am ET (#6)
Scaleb
Loyal Fan

224 posts
10-24-01

Interesting. Tho' I'm sure captnsturm seems think spellpower increase damage of spells (hence the reasoning behind why the mage cap is a newbie item only: It's e-bolt is capped at sp9, so as you level your own e-bolt becomes stronger than the mage cap e-bolt)

also, according to his tests: For damage/mp the higher lvl single target spells are useless (e-bolt is better).

January 16, 2003 09:36 am ET (#7)
Elric
Loyal Fan

337 posts
10-29-02

o.o'?

January 16, 2003 09:41 am ET (#8)
Shah
Loyal Fan

87 posts
06-10-02

#6 why then, for a mage with 14sp, is it that when u use wis pot u notice increase in ebolt damage with newbie wiz cap on.
I tend to agree with the results, since I havent noticed real increase in ebolt damage as I levelled up my mage on LoA..only difference is when wis pot is used or not, and I think this is kinda pathetic!

January 16, 2003 12:23 pm ET (#9)
XLegendMaGex
Loyal Fan

posts
01-09-03

is mb sp o.o?

January 16, 2003 12:31 pm ET (#10)
ruben
Loyal Fan

355 posts
10-07-01

mb: magic bonus (depends on int / items)
sp: spell power (magic bonus + spell level = spell power)

January 16, 2003 12:56 pm ET (#11)
EdL
Loyal Fan

58 posts
07-03-02

sorry but its all wrong... i'l make u a better chart... and mr % duznt effect dmg like they say it duz... mr only has a chance of half dmg.. 10% mr is 10% chance ur magic will only effect half dmg... 90% its gonna do full dmg.. with elemental resist its the same deal.. 30% fire resist is 30% chance the fire attack will do half.. and say u have 50 % mr thats 50% the attack will do half.. so im not sure if they stack or not.. but theres a good chance the fire attack will do 1/4

January 16, 2003 01:07 pm ET (#12)
Schwartz
Loyal Fan

134 posts
02-08-02

I was just having a conversation with someone last night about the damage of attack spells in lineage. I had/have the feeling that they are basically pointles, next to the damage inflicted by a few swings of a sword/staff while the swing results in saving MP for healing/spelling up... I'm glad someone is taking the time to prove me right/wrong. It'll be interesting to see how powerful "spellcasting mages" really can be. Thanks for all of your time as you reverse engineer the physics in Aden. ;) Good luck Sir Isaac Newton. :)

May the Schwartz Be With You!!!

January 16, 2003 01:21 pm ET (#13)
amer
LC Admin

864 posts
07-11-01

EdL: That is exactly how we think MR works. Show me where we say differently. (And it does stack).

January 16, 2003 01:21 pm ET (#14)
warbaby
Loyal Fan

36 posts
10-02-02

Nice work Alfansom! Even though I don't understand much of it, your dedication is clear. Wish I had the same drive for moneymaking & sieging haha

January 16, 2003 01:43 pm ET (#15)
droidbuilder
Loyal Fan

63 posts
10-11-02

I've pegged higher damage on most of those spells before quite a few times.

January 16, 2003 02:30 pm ET (#16)
FreaX
Loyal Fan

158 posts
11-13-02

"Frozen Cloud 3 14-26"

this spell appears to hit multiple times per cast, is this true or not? and if so is this total per hit or all hits combined?

January 16, 2003 03:22 pm ET (#17)
uselessmitch
Loyal Fan

132 posts
06-21-02

yea lol I like it its cool but i dont get much of it! :)

January 16, 2003 03:27 pm ET (#18)
theclanx
Loyal Fan

111 posts
07-09-02

How does the ac affect the base damage? What ac was used for the experiment?

January 16, 2003 04:31 pm ET (#19)
Forsaken
Loyal Fan

87 posts
12-14-02

W00t~!
Nice job Alfansom!!

January 16, 2003 04:57 pm ET (#20)
ruben
Loyal Fan

355 posts
10-07-01

FreaX: it hits once but you see 2 hit animations (bug)
theclanx: ac doesnt affect spell damage

January 16, 2003 06:31 pm ET (#21)
msidoru
Loyal Fan

3 posts
11-21-02

This is great thank you very much for the effort. I tried to print the info but kept getting only 1 page of the image. Any ideas why? I'd like to have this as a handy reference while ingame.

January 16, 2003 07:29 pm ET (#22)
prospace
Loyal Fan

0 posts
07-11-02

Amer & Fellow Mages:

First to Amer -- Thank you very much for informing the rest of the Lineage community about my "magic experiments". Personally, I believe being an Int mage in this game requires that you use your "personal" Int. This is a good thing, and is why I like mages. Part of using your Int is conducting magical experiments. (In this respect, Amer, you are in my opinion the highest Int mage in the game.)

FWIW, I really do consider this to be an "in game" service to other mages by my pledge (Foundation). The example set by my fellow pledge members encourages me to help others.

A couple clarifications on the posts above:

1) My experiments demonstrate with a high degree of certainty that spell damage (for all damage spells) is directly related to Magic Bonus, AND that Magic Level is irrelevant (assuming you are high enough level to throw the spell).

Just to be clear about my assumptions/definitions in the report ...

- Magic Level is the part of Spell Power (SP) that you get as you go up in level.

- Magic Bonus (MB) is the part of SP that you get for Int, from Wis Pots, and for Staff of Sorcerry/Elven Sword of SP. In my report, you will see that I specify the MB.

2) My research provides strong evidence that the damage bonuses from the different types of MB increases (listed in prior bullet) are equivalent.

3) It appears that Amer confused the "spell damage range" that I OBSERVED for each spell test, with the separate "base damage" that I calculated after all the test results were in for a spell. Range and average base damage are different things (as I use them). You can not take the observed range, and then add an increase for Magic Bonus. (The resulting confusion is 100% my responsibility. I know that Amer wanted to ask me some questions to clarify.)

More Details:

Every damage spell demonstrated a spell damage range (a min and max possible damage) for each test. Every test had *at least* 30 data points. The min/max ranges changed for each test as MB was changed. What you see in my report is the "observed min/max range".

AFTER I had collected all the data for a spell in multiple tests (at different Magic Bonus levels), I was able to calculate the "base average damage" with high degree of certainty. This is the average damage you would get with an MB of "0", IF that were possible. You must then add in the impact of the Magic Bonus - based on your Int, whether you are using WisPots, and/or a SoS/ESS -- to get the average expected damage for that spell. (See the "Calculated Results" section for each spell.)

4) This allowed me to "estimate" the average spell damage for different MB levels -- even MB levels that I never tested. For example, for every spell I estimated the average damage that a mage with 25 Int would have, with the assumption that every point of Int beyond 20 gives you +1 MB.

H2ombre states "He tries to predict damage w/ 25 int. However, MB doesnt increase for every point of INT past 20."

Obviously, this is news to me, and it could true. At the moment I have zero evidence to confirm or contradict H2ombre's claim. I would love a citation of the data supports H2ombres statement. (Anyone???)

5) My experiments demonstrated that FC hits the target only one time for damage. This supports Ruben's statement about this being a "graphical bug".

6) My experiments conclusively demonstrated that MR reduces spell damage by 50%.

7) I did not test the impact of Elemental Resistance (to confirm or deny the statement by NC about how it works). This is an easy test to conduct. I will add it to my "to do" list.

8) I did not test how "elemental weakness" affects spell damage. I am as interested in this as any other mage. This has been on my "to do" list for some time. Although harder to test, it is now easier with the data from these initial experiments.

Onwards and upwards,

- Al

Al Fansom
Foundation Blood Pledge (Ken)

January 16, 2003 08:47 pm ET (#23)
FreaX
Loyal Fan

158 posts
11-13-02

u sure are dedicated. nice to see that

January 16, 2003 10:01 pm ET (#24)
h2ombre
Loyal Fan

333 posts
02-28-02

I asked support.
Customer (<ME>) 12/08/2002 03:44 PM
Will spell power increase with base 21,22,23,24 and 25 INT?

Response (Chris) 12/11/2002 04:41 PM
... The reason that you may not notice an increase when you up your intelligence from 21 to say, 22 is because your spell bonus is not directly linked to each intelligence point but rather ranges based off of your base intelligence. ...

Then I asked, "At what values beyond 20 INT will spell bonus increase?"
They said, "I am sorry, but we cannot give out specific information on when the bonuses are applied."

January 16, 2003 10:07 pm ET (#25)
Doomscythe
Loyal Fan

1155 posts
03-21-02

Cool o.o~

January 17, 2003 03:40 am ET (#27)
Arieh
Loyal Fan

24 posts
05-02-02

Well, I think amer's table is very easy to use if you want information quickly. What exactly does the data in amer's table represent?

January 17, 2003 08:56 am ET (#28)
Malakar
Loyal Fan

66 posts
10-25-02

sorry, but i have to say that imo nc's policy of "letting the players find out for themselves" is ridiculous

January 17, 2003 02:38 pm ET (#29)
Lostheaven
Loyal Fan

185 posts
10-06-01

amer you ever find out if a monster's Dex affects spells? You can avoid some spells like fireball, and Ice lance.

January 18, 2003 05:31 pm ET (#30)
ultimaslayer
Loyal Fan

221 posts
06-24-02

you must have worked a long time for that thing! good job!

January 20, 2003 05:52 am ET (#31)
xBlackShadowx
Loyal Fan

2 posts
01-16-03

Good Job

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