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May 29, 2002 10:23 pm ET - research by NC - USA

Experience Changes update

We will be bringing down the North American Lineage servers at approximately 6:15 PM Central US time on Wednesday, May 29th to remove the recently published experience changes as well as the death penalty reduction changes. We have opted to do this in response both to address our own concerns with the system design as well as in response to the high volume of customer feedback we’ve received in the last few hours. The overall system (including both the death penalty and exp. changes) was originally intended to offset connectivity issues in the US market by reducing the experience loss due to character death, while the exp change was included to balance the resulting ease in leveling as well as to limit ‘farming’ of low level monsters in cases where no risk was involved to the character. We are striving to create a system that is both fun for our customers and fair to characters of all levels, and we don’t feel that the current system achieves that goal.

As we will be working to revise the system in the next few weeks, we are very interested in your feedback. We’d like to encourage everyone to visit the Lineage test server and provide feedback on the official Lineage message boards and through our Customer Support emails. We apologize for the disruption this has caused the North American Lineage community, and we will provide updated information on this system change in the near future.

May 29, 2002 10:29 pm ET (#1)

TheOnlyOne
Loyal Fan
42 posts
05-06-02

In your face 1st post .....
anyway ...
what's wrong with that?

May 29, 2002 10:30 pm ET (#2)

Macrossf1
Loyal Fan
49 posts
04-20-02

So does this mean its back to loosing 10% every time I die?
Oh well.

May 29, 2002 10:33 pm ET (#3)

maegnas
Loyal Fan
1 posts
05-05-02

grr, i was going to get 1 post!!
thnx god tghier takeing it out!

May 29, 2002 10:34 pm ET (#4)

EcKs
Loyal Fan
154 posts
04-17-02

bah that sux for high level people

May 29, 2002 10:42 pm ET (#5)

Nitrogun
Loyal Fan
229 posts
03-17-02

Still not very satisfying... but better then nothing ^^

May 29, 2002 11:01 pm ET (#6)

Tueur
Loyal Fan
60 posts
04-05-02

Wait a minute...........

They gave us the death mod because our internet infrastructure in the US stinks.......

.......so now it's all better?

C'mon... stop toying w/ us, please.

May 29, 2002 11:01 pm ET (#7)

DanteHell
Loyal Fan
2 posts
05-06-02

its too bad. Go see my new topic in the forums on an idea on how to FIX this problem.......

May 29, 2002 11:10 pm ET (#8)

Alanc
Loyal Fan
167 posts
02-09-02

oh thank god! w/o FBing bk's and lizzies i dont know how id ever lvl my mage! its hard enough to lvl a mage at lvl 32!

May 29, 2002 11:12 pm ET (#9)

QueenNina
Loyal Fan
197 posts
10-31-01

Man, they are so dumb, we complaind about the exp given from mops, not the death change. Why do they do this? They just don't get it.

May 29, 2002 11:13 pm ET (#10)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

So does this really means it goes back to 10~13% exp reduce when death occurs?
This kinda sucks

May 29, 2002 11:15 pm ET (#11)

IronMage
Loyal Fan
55 posts
04-24-02

How am i going 2 lvl up my lvl 49 knight....That kills my plans 2 get 2 50 :(

May 29, 2002 11:16 pm ET (#12)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

We will chew up and spit out all forms of nerfing created by nc-austin and their
band of merry nerfers.

Please do not dazzle us with your understanding of lineage any further nc-austin
please! Go back to you lsd and pcp and leave us alone!

May 29, 2002 11:16 pm ET (#13)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

They should keep the reduced death experience drop, and cancel the new experience system for that 2/3 lvl crap

May 29, 2002 11:17 pm ET (#14)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

yup

May 29, 2002 11:18 pm ET (#15)

Zandorf
Loyal Fan
9 posts
02-27-02

1) wth? u mean to tell me i gotta go back to losin lots of exp at a high lvl because of lag death? way to go nc.
2) alanc: lvling a mage at 32 is not hard if u know where and how to do it. wis me if u play dep i'll give u some pointers if im not in the middle of siege or other important matters [same name in the game].

May 29, 2002 11:19 pm ET (#16)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

God....... Does NC knows what they are doing??
This is getting nowhere but keep forcing us to quit game....

May 29, 2002 11:21 pm ET (#17)

thunderbird
Loyal Fan
15 posts
02-23-02

keke no guys, we still only lose 1-5 exp but now they change it back to so we still get some exp from all mops.

May 29, 2002 11:22 pm ET (#18)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

Oh....so the death experience drop rate stays @ 1~5%, but they just remove the new experience system that mop gives?

May 30, 2002 12:01 am ET (#19)

Tueur
Loyal Fan
60 posts
04-05-02

No.......we ARE back to the 10-13% death loss. Read Mel's post.

May 30, 2002 12:03 am ET (#20)

SolidSoul
Loyal Fan
47 posts
02-17-02

all i have to say is LOL.... im glad i dun play anymore O_o

May 30, 2002 12:08 am ET (#21)

StoneWolf
Loyal Fan
11 posts
05-15-02

Its better to lose more experience at death than to not be able to gain any experience. With the exception of lag, any death is caused by you and can be prevented. I'm level 35 now and I havent died since level 12. All you gotta do is be smart.

I can guarantee that not gaining experience would hurt high level players worst than losing the old 10% when dying.

But this is just my humble opinion.

May 30, 2002 12:18 am ET (#22)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

This really sux....I left game 2 months ago...I was going to join back this week, but now I have to reconsider....because of this stupid update...
I mean, the DEX/AC update is good, but this 2/3 lvl mop exp crap is so stupid.
I think that is why NCI charges $15 USD/month... to squeeze as much juice as possible from us players and then just close the game or something...o.O

May 30, 2002 12:38 am ET (#23)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

Sigh.

May 30, 2002 12:43 am ET (#24)

Vegeto
Loyal Fan
19 posts
05-26-02

hmmm... anyone think that NC, DOESNT want to make money? this surely kills alot of player accounts and their will to play..... come on nc.... you want to make money dont you ?;) then give us what we want...........><

May 30, 2002 12:44 am ET (#25)

Dubby
Loyal Fan
31 posts
03-27-02

why is everyone complaining.. the exp is back to normal and the death % is back to what it use to be.. we only had that 1-5% death loss a month ago.. just try to switch back and everything will be the same again.. except now we get the dex/ac thingy ^^

May 30, 2002 12:45 am ET (#26)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

Please remove richard garriott and his team of 60 IQ employees who don't play the game nor do they understand it and who thought of the tit for tat mentality of removing the exp loss changes on death. Let them go back to working a 7-11 and let them dream about developing a game after they grow up!!!

NC-austin really lost my respect today, and you'll not earn it back, unless you wake up and try and do good to this game.

I saw them all scurring around at e3, geeze they are morons...No wonder EA fired Richard Garriott and ran him out of UO. His team is full of psycho's

May 30, 2002 12:45 am ET (#27)

Mort
Loyal Fan
34 posts
11-15-01

Guys what you need to realise is that the reduced death penalty was supposed to have been offset by this experience cap.

You cant have one without the other. Otherwise it becomes to easy to level up to 50+.

I rather lose 10-13% and gain exp from any mop, than lose 1-5% and not be able to level unless i hunt FV and DVC.

I was actually finding that i did not care if i died, because i could make back the exp easy, and i am level 45+.

This way pplz will be more careful about letting there characters die. Ok i know most deaths are due to lag.

But look at all the existing level 50 players, some of them died a few times on there way to level 50 and none of them complained about lag deaths, they just buckled down and got on with levelling.

I think this the exp lose is a small price to pay for gaining exp from anything that you wish to hunt.

May 30, 2002 12:47 am ET (#28)

Dubby
Loyal Fan
31 posts
03-27-02

agreed, mort

May 30, 2002 12:48 am ET (#29)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

Because they keep making changes. First it improves our desire to play because of that 1-5% death exp loss, and then they use the reason "balance the game" to add something stupid/gay (the new mop exp system). Then they decided to cancel them both? LOL... NCI, I think you dont really like US Dollars right?

May 30, 2002 12:50 am ET (#30)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

bah, mort your wrong.

the reduced exp loss was due to poor bandwith and extrememly high lag deaths due to NC-austins extrememly poor isp. Koreans don't die to lag like us.

Mel tied the two together as a desperate measure so that they would not look like freakin morons... But I think somebody in that office is smoking rocks....

May 30, 2002 12:51 am ET (#31)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

LOL nice one Iron.

May 30, 2002 12:55 am ET (#32)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

Spare the rod, spoil the child

May 30, 2002 12:59 am ET (#33)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

When will NC ever learn....
I guess they just dont want the US market...

May 30, 2002 01:11 am ET (#34)

Etikilam
Loyal Fan
381 posts
02-12-02

lol... *happy he quit also*
I remember when someone asked what level these guys where. After almost a year of playing the staff has achieved an average of like level 35 or somthing... thats pretty sad, but hey! They "understand" the game...
btw Mort 45+ is not the same as 48 or 49+. So dont even pretend like you have the slightest clue as to what its like to lose 10% at those levels. Dont you dare group 45+ with higher levels cuz the difference is huge. With the exception of the knight class, dieing at level 48+ even with the new 5% loss was still a setback of 5 or so hours of straight killing (no pets), depending on your equipment. Thats a decent sized setback even for people who play 10+ hours a day. How would you feel if your boss gave you only half your pay because of some silly little glitch? Whoa im ranting... sorry.

May 30, 2002 01:17 am ET (#35)

Dryad
Loyal Fan
29 posts
05-29-02

At level 50 it will take you 2 weeks or more (if you play like a normal person) to recover from one death. Why put in an update that encourages people to play then kill it by taking it out, NC admins either don't realize how long it actually takes to get 13% at level 49-50 or don't care about keeping players.

May 30, 2002 01:32 am ET (#36)

Talismann
Loyal Fan
9 posts
05-14-02

My comment is this. Alot of the higher mops that we are suppose to kill our level can drop some really crummy stuff. Alot of mops are all or nothing drops. If I cant go out and kill a few thousand small ones to make some adena then I gotta choose........Do I want to level?........ or make some cash.

ANd playing a weak princess char I gotta tell you most my mops my level eat me alive. If anyone has any tips for a prince/ss............. Im listening. Im so bored of ogre rock its unreal........and having the whole kennel behind you just to stay alive......W00t FUN!!!!!!!! (sarcastic tone)

May 30, 2002 01:38 am ET (#37)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

because nc-austin is evil, they give us the lesser exp loss, and then take it away, when nc-korean updates come along. Go nerf your mother RG

May 30, 2002 01:54 am ET (#38)

Mort
Loyal Fan
34 posts
11-15-01

Just because i am not a level 48+ character does not mean i don't know how hard it is to level up a character to that level. It takes time and if i could afford to spend 6-8 hrs each day playing i am sure i would be close to level 50 than i am now.

Death is part of the game, if its either due to lag or your own stupidity, deal with it. Many of the level 50 players died on there way from 49 to 50 but that did not stop them, because there aim was to get to level 50.

Anybody who can spend 6-8 hrs a day playing lineage will just get on with the job of making up the lost exp, lag is part of the game and we all know that.

Quote from Etikilam

"Dieing at level 48+ even with the new 5% loss was still a setback of 5 or so hours of straight killing (no pets), depending on your equipment."

What your forgetting that at level 48 with the new EXP system in place, you will only be able to hunt a select few monsters to get 100% exp, so it would take you 2-3 times as long to get the 5% back now, than it would have before. I mean you tell me what at level 48 a character other than a knight can 1:1 a Succubus Queen.

At level 48 DV would give you virtually no experience, and for a mage to hunt DVC and FV on your own with no pets without burning pots like crazy is just stupid. At least with pets and a few pots with the old system you could still gain exp on FV and anywhere else for that matter, it just takes time.

Time is what will get you to level 50, if you can afford to play as much as most of the guys that have gotten to level 50 then you deserve it.

May 30, 2002 02:01 am ET (#39)

Raistleen
Loyal Fan
60 posts
05-16-02

Hmmm don't get me serious but i am beginning to form a theory:

-They introduced the exp loss update.
-Sometime later a knight arrives at lvl 52 (yubi?) and says that he quits
-Little time later nc puts an update that makes lvling high lvl chars harder.
-Due to the utterly cries of pain of the players, they get back the exp 2/3 update, but to make sure people don't lvl up too fast they get the exp loss update off.

Maybe they got scared of people getting bored of playing once arrived at higher lvls.

But nc(mel?), if you ever read this, if you don't want to loose the high lvl players (i mean 48-52+) give them new challenges, don't make them harder to just play. Maybe get new Bosses, or enable the cray test, or ....

Think about it, how many times will we see now pro yubi and all the others doing dragon hunts? or participating seriously in sieges? remember the date when we saw a war involving Ghostz (45+) pledge? (funny it was near the exp loss update ;) )

If you want your high lvl players involved in the lineage world, enable them to enjoy the game, nobody can enjoy he game knowing that if he dies sieging or dragon hunting, they will need one month or more to recover their actual lvl.

And to make things straight, i'm lvl 43 mage now, so no high lvl. So is no whining, because now i can still recover myy exp doing doggie hunt in ant caves for an hour or two :)

May 30, 2002 02:01 am ET (#40)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

Damn Mort, why dont you hold a lecture at a College or University or something since you know so much about Lineage :P

May 30, 2002 02:11 am ET (#41)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

There were at least 500 posts deleted today by the official board mods.

ARE YOU GETTING A CLUE YET NC-AUSTIN? Or do we need to stage this larger and larger each time you do something totally moronic? The official blurb says "we"
So Mel if your in the "we" catagory with them, I would suggest you've never played the game longer than 4 hours, except playing lord british.. "we" have seen you login each time after one of the arena events. And I know RG is'nt going to say "k" like u did durring the fireworks event. The fire grows stronger as I become more irritated with your BS nc-austin

May 30, 2002 02:11 am ET (#42)

Realrena
Loyal Fan
28 posts
05-05-02

I think NC is going to ban alot of accounts, because "we" disagrees with their stupid ideas, and they want "us" to play it "their" way. When will NC's stupidity go away?

May 30, 2002 02:17 am ET (#43)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

We can't play it their way. They play on an offline test server, all alone without other people. And they practice necrophelia on each other there.

May 30, 2002 02:26 am ET (#44)

TheOnlyOne
Loyal Fan
42 posts
05-06-02

Too good to be true....

May 30, 2002 02:32 am ET (#45)

Etikilam
Loyal Fan
381 posts
02-12-02

They err i dont think necrophelia was the correct word, unless your impling they are mindless zombies from all the drugs they are obviously doing ^_^*
Quote from Mort *oh that sounds so cute for some reason*
What your forgetting that at level 48 with the new EXP system in place, you will only be able to hunt a select few monsters to get 100% exp, so it would take you 2-3 times as long to get the 5% back now, than it would have before. I mean you tell me what at level 48 a character other than a knight can 1:1 a Succubus Queen.
I quit before they added that, Although i dont agree with that exp rule, it kinda makes higher levels hunt together. I know when i hunted with another level 48-49 knight with my mage (48) we could stay down there for over an hour easy. Btw a mage can 1:1 a succubus queen at level 48, with very few pots. It would just require most of thier mana (for healing). Infact, if the mp limit from the mana staff was taken away, a mage could probly 1:1 a succubus queen easy since it has so much mana...

May 30, 2002 02:33 am ET (#46)

TOOL
Loyal Fan
162 posts
10-28-01

We are striving to create a system that is both fun for our customers and fair to characters of all levels, and we don’t feel that the current system achieves that goal.

it was fun and fair.....

May 30, 2002 02:35 am ET (#47)

Acantho
Loyal Fan
30 posts
05-22-02

Well I have to say I prefer losing 10% then having the stupid change in exp. There aren't enough high lvl monsters out there and if I had to kill all the lower lvl mops while waiting for the higher lvled ones to respawn and didn't get any exp for them but still got hurt then I'd have to say I'd leave this game.
But they need to change something cause I'm tired of losing exp during seiges. I seiged a bit when they lowered the amount of exp lost when dying but I wont seige much now. Not unless they make it so you lose no exp.
Of course I don't agree with the seige system as it is now anyways.
It's supposed to be a seige not a race... ever watched a seige after the tower
goes down the first time??? It's just bodies running into the castle
over and over. Pathetic and completely boring.

May 30, 2002 02:37 am ET (#48)

IronBlade Dragon
Loyal Fan
135 posts
10-13-01

I don't think they know the current system, mostly because where they have put their heads for the past year. And it explains why they don't see the obvious...

May 30, 2002 02:41 am ET (#49)

Lostheaven
Loyal Fan
185 posts
10-06-01

Sitting in my COI , I returned to watch the newbie I grew from little ones to semi strong ones. The 5% and 1% was a huge gift to the Lineage community. The problem , the person who design this used Lineage data , IE , level 30 player vs. Level 30 Monster. Works? Of course not. I don't expect NCsoft to get this right on the first try. As I wrote Mel , which I hope he listens , I said that the average level 40 player hunts lvl 20ish mops.
We all know the hotspots for getting experience... the problems lies with communication...
Let's face , NCsoft has vastly improved in every area. The player base has not , the people playing on the Test Server give little feed back unless it directly results in them losing things. There were many glaring problems with the experience update that nobody on the Test Server spoke about.
I hunted as a newbie , in SWL and all "newbie" areas are flooded with high level players. Later as a high level character I asked why? The reason is items , some of the low level monsters , BKs for one drop good items for all levels. The other reason is , 99% of the mages playing today , don't know how to hunt with a mage.
I wrote a guide on mages sent it to Amer ages ago. You can level a mage from 4 to 40 with ebolt and leather armor with a few dogs or tammed pets.

Alot of the stuff people are complaining about on the experience thing , they don't have a clue. Most of them saw the simple "I am not getting my normal experience and begin to bitch" . Half the fault lies with NCsoft-US , simply lvl 30+ do not hunt lvl for lvl, even if you manage to do so it messes up your drops and profit. Most people are hunting Dv , DVC , VL , Desert , Floor 4 Giran , Floor 4 Mainland cave , Floor 4 Skt cave, those average lvl 20 for the mops. You fight those and you gonna suffer big time. Now who reported this from the test server? I quit the test server because people there are lazy or Ken rejects that major issues (and basically getting free items). It terrible , this update was beautiful , 99% of the complainers don't see how awesome this new stuff is, even dog owners got something special.

Anyhow blames lies with both players and NCsoft-US , I made a suggestion. I doubt if anyone is going to listen to a tired old has been knight/mage but you people playing the test server need to get off your ass. You are our first line of defense, you see a problem.. Nevermind , they don't care about us or how the game goes , just their uber items.

The whole update was good , it was flawed but its was a good update. Now if you excuse me I am going to take my BBs out and bash on some poor Orcs cause it makes me feel better.

May 30, 2002 04:08 am ET (#50)

Pepper
Loyal Fan
135 posts
02-11-02

I've said this on the lineage official boards and I don't mind saying it again here...for those who think that setting the death penalty back to 10~13% is not a big deal. Well, changing the death penalty a month ago was like the most brilliant update I've seen since I came back. And for those who doesn't know, it takes a prince class 5+ hours to get 1% at 49, because we simply don't kill the monsters as fast as the knights. (Same goes for mages / elves who wish to get to 50) So...losing 10% upon death at lv 49 means we lost 50+ hours of game play..simply due to lag and server problems (You know NC never takes responsibility of exp lost because of server lags) And...50+ hours is alot. It's already getting dull having to waste so much time just to gain 1%, losing 10% (2 week's work) will really depress you. What's so bad about the losing 1~5% upon death anyways...we lose the same amount of EXPERIENCE. NCI really disappoints me with their effort of trying to 'please' their customers.

Re #36 Tallisman, the prince class is always 'forgotten'. Think about how many updates that actually does something to improve the prince class? I only remember the crown (which is shit because u gain them only when the server is new, and u lose them upon death), the rkc (yay..gives u 2 more members, and ppl just use them for summoning these days), and......what else? No special potion, no better armor / weapon...I'll stop, I'm not whining (I've done enough of it) Just stating the facts.

May 30, 2002 04:52 am ET (#51)

QuickShadow_
Loyal Fan
173 posts
02-05-02

Nice opinions Lostheaven #49 , I completly agree with you.

May 30, 2002 05:03 am ET (#52)

Dein
Loyal Fan
77 posts
02-08-02

Mel, have them return the lower exp loss on death and please continue to follow what nc-korea does.

In my humble opinion you guys are stuck on the "do your own balancing act' it's wrong and you guys are off track. While Nc-korea balances things with millions of players you guys continue to try and put your own spin on everyting without sucess. It's unnecessary and is causing problems with your core playerbase.

Why don't you guys try working on events instead of bad unique updates.

Nerfing us shows nc-austin's ignorance of the game's mechanics.

Your not going to nerf us to fit within the confines of a mmorpg that does not allow advancement like uo, where we get nerfed to keep us within the limits you see fit. That's not lineage and we might as well all quit if that's the plan.

Lineage constantly grows and it's players grow with it.

Do you honestly think all those bb mages are going to change their hunting spots when you put the change back in? no man they are going to stay right wher they are and continue to hunt the same areas for the same ton of loot. They for the most part(there a few exceptions)will continue to hunt the same areas as most are just there to fund their other charactors....Does lower exp change anything for them? NOPE

Will any of the newbies comming in have a chance for lvl 50 with this lower exp from mop? probably not!

your update was not constructive and i'm glad it was removed by the players voices.

P.S. my compendium acct was hacked,so this is'nt really dein. So don't blame him. lol

May 30, 2002 06:42 am ET (#53)

Linny
Loyal Fan
166 posts
05-01-02

what about this boring thing when uour bbs start to drop money or items after just half an hour of hunt and see ppl stealing it?!

May 30, 2002 07:04 am ET (#54)

OLDMAN
Loyal Fan
100 posts
04-04-02

I'm too tired to read the whole thread put here's my opinion:

-------------------------
We are striving to create a system that is both fun for our customers and fair to characters of all levels, and we don’t feel that the current system achieves that goal.
-------------------------

Did someone complain? If the death cost reduction would have been kept everyone would have been very happy. I don't see why you guys there have to ponder how to make it fun for everyone. I think the players are better to judge that. At least they play it properly, from the scratch to the top. I feel that taking out the reduction is a punishment for our "little rebellion" against exp update. We won this battle, war isn't over. Let us judge, what's fun. We who play, not the one's who just watch it from outside.

May 30, 2002 07:32 am ET (#55)

BigPope
LC Admin
622 posts
01-18-02

I complaned about the death cost redution. its very very bad. evil. yes.

May 30, 2002 09:21 am ET (#56)

MisterBunny
Loyal Fan
1 posts
05-30-02

This is what I have seen, and I bet that NCI saw it as well...BB mages going to TI and hitting North Beach, and leaving nothing for newbies to hunt. Hitting Kobolds with six BB's.

The only reason for them to do this was to annoy people. Evidence? they would dismiss them by the dwarf there. Others would tame spiders and dismiss them in town as well. One day there were a bunch of dead newbies by the dwarf. I'm sure that NCI saw this and realised that they were going to lose a possible expanding market. Let's face it: if you are playing on Ken and you are a level 6, you don't expect to die in town on TI by the dwarf, just because some bored mage wants to see what will happen when he lets 6 BB's go there.

So, my assumption is that NCI saw this going on, or saw some other nasty to newbie stuff going on, and decided that hey, if those high level folks are so bored, let's make the game harder for them. And let's leave the newbies alone to level up and join the community

Feel free to flame, but I've been thinking about this for a long time, well before the updates.

May 30, 2002 09:23 am ET (#57)

Aphelion
Loyal Fan
7 posts
12-02-01

This has easily got to be one of the most humorous moments I've seen in Lineage.

Everyone is provided with a nice feature, which is then countered with a feature to balance it (personally, I thought it was a good idea). Everyone gets in an uproar about it, so they (NC) change it back. Then for the next 12 hours all I see is people complaining that they want it changed back to the previous update. They want the death update _and_ the exp ruduction. Saying that "it's better than neither!".

Lineage is full of ingreats...

May 30, 2002 09:26 am ET (#58)

NordicGlory
Loyal Fan
77 posts
05-14-02

#55 You wanted them to reinstate 10-13% loss at deaths?

Care to elaborate on why if so? As a highlevel prince I ejoyed that update, especially since I lag a lot.

I really dont care today, my faith in the game and its creators got bashed pretty hard yesterday. Ill wait a short while for the sake of my friends, but my date is more then likely coming up pretty soon.

May 30, 2002 10:56 am ET (#59)

Spyder
Loyal Fan
148 posts
12-04-01

>.< i blew up my motherboard or sum crap like that...gonna cost $300+ to fix grrrr lol i dun think its really fried, should just be like a video card from wut i can tell, they just want money --;
im missin all this stuff in lineage...lol im in he dam library just to catch up- well ill talk to ya guys later

May 30, 2002 11:13 am ET (#60)

Pepper
Loyal Fan
135 posts
02-11-02

Re: #56
Mages can no longer dismiss bug bears and let them floating around anymore. The bb's will just disappear upon dispersal. The only way u see untamed bb's floating around TI town is when the bb mage disconnects him/herself (intentionally or not) But the bbs will be on alert and will not do anything unless they are hit. And from what I've seen...some of the lower level players(and the high level ones) will immediately run for the bbs and kill them, hoping that there are drops inside (we all do that). But some of the lower lvls underestimated the 'power' of the bbs and died in the process.
NC have already made alot of changes in favor of the new players (so-called newbies, but the word 'newbie' is often hard to define). They have added Singing Island, Hidden Valley, tons of NPCs which will answer questions, healers, and many new modifications so that you won't 'drop your starting gear'. I remember when I was a 'newbie', or when I was new to the game, there were no such things. There were those crazy pine parties by the dwarf, released bb's, pk's popping out of coi and wacked/erupted/shot you to death in a matter of seconds, and I always had to pick up tons of dwarvish sword, daggers etc, because I will lose my precious dagger when i die...Now we will get a delay for getting out of coi. So...please, find a safe spot when you are going afk or when you are resting, that's why there are hotels and stuffs. Even a high level player will be in danger if he/she stays afk for a long time in open spaces...
And if NCI thinks that the lower lvls are not getting monsters, why not extend the time they can stay on SI/HV to lv 20 or something? SI/HV is big...there are plenty room for more players to hunt there (I don't see alot of people hunting there anyways) And introduce harder mops on different parts so the lower lvls can choose what kind of mop to kill. Anyways, I don't think NC should interfere with what kind of monster a player kills anyways...It's call the freedom of choice --

May 30, 2002 11:44 am ET (#61)

TCUBED
Loyal Fan
109 posts
03-18-02

heres my theory on the lag death- it was obviously directed towards the higher levels because 13% is despite what people say a HUGE time loss(very frusterating...a games supposed to be fun) not to say that dying shouldnt carry a penalty but lets think about this, what high lvl player dies to anything BUT lag??? /sarcasm on, yeah lvl 48 knights alway go hunting without venz o.O/srcasm off its just the lag and I thought NCi got it..but i guess they dont

May 30, 2002 12:03 pm ET (#62)

cruelgame
LC Reporter
290 posts
04-04-02

Ok. I've seen some good ideas here. Big Pope your not funny. What needs to happen is this: There should be SOME exp gain reduction to prevent this so-called "farming"(whatever the hell that means). But it should be like 1/2 the players level. That way a level 49 char can still hunt fv for exp, but he can't go camp out zombies in swl (like anyone does this anyway).

Furthermore, the exp lose on death should be DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount of exp that you had to gain for that 1%. That means if you need the same amount of exp from level 25-26 as you do for 48-49, then sure everyone should lose 12% on death. But you don't. The amount of exp lost should be in EXPERIENCE POINTS not percentage. So a level 25 person may still lose 12% on death, but a level 49 person would only lose 1-2%.

I agree that dying at high levels should come with consequences, but not with such a rediculously obvious difference.... 12% at level 25 is 1-3 hours tops. 12% at level 49 is 36 hours of hunting. NCI tell me that is not unbalanced. Please tell me that having to gain a MASSIVE amount of exp to level at 49 and then losing it all with one death is not unbalanced. Come on TELL ME! Cuz then I too will have lost faith in you guys, and I'm one of your most avid supporters. It's sad. NCI reminds me of Enron. But HEY Dex/Ac rocks. I'm spent.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
-Plato

May 30, 2002 12:04 pm ET (#63)

xTICTACx
Loyal Fan
58 posts
02-20-02

word up pepper....and on lag death i am pretty high in the food chain..and last night right after the NC's took out lag death away...i went to fv...only to
be "lagged speared"...<with the aid of Ifrit/Pheonix>....my screen frozen for a sec then next thing i know i was gazing up looking at the heavens...lossed 13%...I was pissed...got banned for 300min for saying "NC I hate your f**king game"....i guess that part is my fault but for all you high people out there
I know you know what I am talking about....so LAG DEATH SUX and NC sucks the big one too...

May 30, 2002 12:54 pm ET (#64)

Warizon
Loyal Fan
22 posts
05-09-02

Anyone who can spend 30 to 40 hours to regain 13% deserves to have the death penalty lowered to a reasonable level (yeah, it's a bit of a catch-22). I like the idea of using Experience *points* loss rather than percentage loss. This totally solves the balance issue - or pretty close anyway. But to remove the ability to gain experience from lower level mops is absolutely ridiculous. I would most certainly give up if I were level 40+. I can barely manage 8-10 hours a week. I don't play for my health. I play to *level up*.

May 30, 2002 12:56 pm ET (#65)

Mighty
Loyal Fan
34 posts
03-21-02

Mel - I hope your reading these. I haven't been much of a "poster" type on these boards, but yesterday was too much. I've played since beta and my strongest char is a dex elf. Life is tough for a dex elf, but I love it anyway. I love this game also - well, I did til yesterday.
If your goal is to get rid of us quiet, loyal customers, then I think you may of acheived it. I've put up with the good and the bad changes, but yesterday's exp update was uncalled for in everyway. The way it was implemented and what it did to the game. For the first time since I've started, I'm seriously considering moving on to other things in life and leaving Lineage behind. This pains me, but, when treated bad I stop spending my money.
I'm no kid either, being 47 years old. I'm not a big gamer either - til Lineage came along. You've got (or had) a great thing here. Please be more careful with what you do with it and listen more to us that have played thousands of hours. We know what we like and want - and we're paying! You say players don't dictate the game? In every other business in the world, the customer dictates what they want - by how they spend their money. SO, please wise up and listen, really listen and then use what you hear to build a better product. We all really love this game and only want to have some fun! God knows we earn it out there in the real world every day. Thanks and maybe I'll still see ya around.

May 30, 2002 01:03 pm ET (#66)

Schwartz
Loyal Fan
134 posts
02-08-02

I just wrote what equates to about 5-6 pages... realized I was rambling.. and decided to stick with an outline.

Thesis: Yesterday was a swift kick in the Jimmy to all of the players that know what it is like to hunt past level 45, to new players that do not yet have any AC, and to all the players that have ever posted suggestions on the messageboards.

[A] Game Design - The game must be FUN to keep lev 52 ppl from quitting (see #39)
-1- Items give us little goals and make playing more interesting
-2- Monster variety makes hunting more enjoyable

[B] The game must address R/L issues, such as ISP lag, regional lag, and system requirements.
-1- Lowering the experience loss was because REAL LIFE dictated that something be done about the lag deaths that were becoming more and more common.
-2- It was a GREAT change and NC earned a great pat on the back

[C] Listening to PLAYER FEEDBACK
-1- For MONTHS AND MONTHS, players have been begging for the DEX/AC update.
-2- NC instated it and there COULD HAVE BEEN "much rejoicing"
-3- NC disregarded Subtopic "C" and tried to play God, making 2 huge changes at one time.

[D] Solutions...fixing the problem
-1- IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM
------- a Was the problem that was causing people to quit in mass due to only losing 6% per death? No.
------- b Was the problem caused by people upset that their AC was too low after the DEX update? No.
------- c Was the problem that people were REALLY MAD about the poorly-thought-out change of experience gained when hunting? YES
-2- SOLVING THE PROBLEM
------- a After properly identifying the problem, a solution was developed to remove the problematic subsection troubleshooting question =c=
------- b The problem was corrected

NOW I ASK YOU... WHERE DID THE IDEA TO PUT THE EXP-DEATH BACK IN THE GAME COME FROM? DID REMOVING THE EXP-LOSS PROBLEM SUDDENLY FIX ALL OF THE LAG ISSUES? THATS AMAZING!!!!(SARCASM--HOPE YOU'RE GETTING IT BECAUSE I'M LAY'N IT ON PRETTY THICK) WE SHOULD REMOVE ALL OF THE EXP-LOSS ISSUES IN --EVERY-- COMPANY SO NO ONE WOULD --EVER-- HAVE TO DEAL WITH LAG AGAIN!!!! WOOOHOOOO.. NC HAS SAVED THE FUTURE OF THE INTERNET BY IDENTIFYING THE ROOT CAUSE OF LAG

May 30, 2002 01:08 pm ET (#67)

TP
Loyal Fan
18 posts
11-26-01

i think im gunna start up my own lienage web page just so that people can bash NC and reminss about what is good and bad aobut lineage.. caues thats all you guys seem to do.. and ill charge 15$USD a vist.. and 1/2 way though your post on my page i will lag you and cause u greef so that i to can be like NC. then ill give you your next post at 1/2 price.. caues instead of fixing the problem ill jsut keep it going and make up bullsh!t resolutions to a messed up world where the dedacated and loyal players get screwed up the ass because NC's drive to bring up a profit is so large they spend all there time suckering people into regresting for a month.. i wonder how many people only play for a month? i bet most people only play for a month find out that the game is so heavy ended to new players that they just quit and go back to playing quake or ou or CS. nc need to balace the game by mabye letting the players decide how they would like there world run.. this is not a damn comunsit counrty.. i say before each "major" update NC makes a poll.. when you log into your account a month before the update u get to chooce yes or no for some questions sothat NC can acculy do something that the players want instead of what they.. the big bad what.. 3-5months of real game play mabye less "vets" that know the game so well they dont need our advice they jstu do s they please. what so hard about it.. its call "market research" you dont see people selling snow cones in the arctic NC. there is no demmand.. but there is defently a demand for you guys to get your act togeather. stop thinking about your selfs and what u think is right.. i dare u to play the game for 5 months without your aid tools .. see how strong you get.. then when i kill your ass and make you drop 4 months of work in one shot see how much you love your game then.. or when you lag and drop your brand new weapon u just bought see how much fun it is then.. "oh sorry i am just a monitor you must contact support about your problem" how many times have i seen that.. "our game hes in-game support" i have yet to see one instace of ingame support.. ever. you guys dohnt like the new exp/death shit? heres a solution.. you die.. u sould lost a % of your net exp.. die at lvl 25 lose 20% of your net exp no biggie.. lvl 30-10% lvl 40- 5% lvl 50+ 2-3%.. is that so hard.. i dont think so.. will it improve things.. i think so.. lets see wha else. you dont like high lvl players hunting in noobie areas? thats to damn bad.. if there is one thing i like in lineage its to make NC lose all its busness so they can jsut disapear and we can go back to the origial korean server styles! that server was a million times better..
its not like things would change tht much.. there would be no support of corse but thats no loss.. there would be swearing allowed.. prices would go back to normal. and hte game would be fun once again. if any of you played the old .77 server u know what im tlakig about.. big pine partys. duels at karim. chao temple wars. 20 lvl 4 mages e-bolting everyone to death in north TI. a lvl 24 mage could kill a lvl 48+ knight with VT... to bad the mages and every other class got nerffed.. its a shame. you dont see hockey or baseball players .. "oh im sorry i shot it to hard for the people to see it ball on TV? ok well ill slow it down next time so that they can follow the game and raitings go up and your dumbs ass company can make more money.. instead of jsut enjoying the sport i play".. i have about 10 hours worth of thing to write about for i have been playing lineage for 6 allsmot 7 years now.. but i dont htink you wanna read all that. see ya.
- Toiletpaper, XHX, HandOfGod, TP, Leif, SavageNoble, SoulSnatcher, IronWizard, Dynamix, Jesus

May 30, 2002 02:02 pm ET (#68)

cruelgame
LC Reporter
290 posts
04-04-02

A few quotes that I thought fit well for this occasion:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -Anonymous

"There is nothing more frightful then ignorance in action."
-Johann von Goethe

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King Jr.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
-Edmund Burke, "Thoughts on the Present Discontents", 1770

"The revolution... is a dictatorship of the exploited against the exploiters."
-Fidel Castro

Hope you enjoyed these. I think they apply. Maybe I'll post some more later.

May 30, 2002 02:19 pm ET (#69)

TheQuickWind
Loyal Fan
145 posts
04-15-02

Of corse we all think there shod be a penilty for dieing.
But die couse o lag , I don't feel that there shod be. it is not the players falt. some thing that can be done is if there no connection betweed the players computer and the severchange the amount of time a player stays in the game,
Or set it up so the player will auto ues pots if they got them.( only if there is not connection with them ) Another thing would be to make a player auto fight back like is done in other games. or even auto home tele. or auto run away.. lol .. One idea i like is to make some npc that the player and trade $ or somthing to reseve 50% of lost exp back. .. Drop outs are a big problem with lineage.. and it shod be deal with as if it was a Bug with the soft ware.
I don't think a player shod be set back days of work becouse of lag outs.

Oh, and yes i know my spelling sux.. ... Oo" But.. whatever...

May 30, 2002 02:31 pm ET (#70)

Jaire
Loyal Fan
74 posts
02-12-02

Ahahaha, stupid whiners! Take a big ol' slap in the face. Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

May 30, 2002 02:31 pm ET (#71)

karrot
Loyal Fan
47 posts
04-24-02

EVERYONE SWITCH TO BATTLE.NET!!!

May 30, 2002 02:39 pm ET (#72)

Warizon
Loyal Fan
22 posts
05-09-02

"Scientists say the most plentiful element in the universe is hydrogen. They're wrong. The most plentiful element in the universe is stupidity."

Frank Zappa

Why can't the lineage servers detect a disconnection and build in something that would give the players the "benefit of the doubt" under such circumstances.
Basically it would require keeping a running buffer of the players last minute of action and backing up to the state they were in 1 minute before the disconnection. Maybe that requires too much bandwidth....

May 30, 2002 03:30 pm ET (#73)

aupairKing
Loyal Fan
320 posts
03-11-02

WHY? WHY? WHY?...................
It is obvious to me that NC-Austin thinks that Lineage is a 6 month game of pleasure and then you quit, because they haven't done Jack SH*T to appease the people that have stuck with the game for an extended period. How about a REAL SURVEY of the Users and find out what our feeling and desires are. This CR*P about what is your bandwidth and Video card doesn't do any good except for your concept marketing for new Games.

Since I already have three characters, I do not play SI or Hidden Valley and so all I got to say about a possible change or adding of caves there is WHO GIVES A DAMN!

Bandwidth is a problem? OK! it s a problem for me too. You change the EXP loss, good idea, you limit where people can gain exp from, WOAH!!!! Hold your Horses!! Why do you have to dictate that I can no longer run amuck in the MLC 1st floor. What is wrong with you people? I can't get drops that are worthy of my time on the servers right now and you also want to steal the EXP away? WTF! Is this a game or do you think you are my boss and dictate my total pleasures too. I think you people forget, I DO NOT need to pay for this game if I do not want too. AND THE CONSUMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

As for testing this out on test server? I would be more than willing to give good feedback, BUT ONLY IF I RECIEVE GOOD SUPPORT!!! I try to go to test and evaluate things. You would think on test you would pop that little window up at startup and tell me the changes and ask for feedback! But did I have a clue that there was a change there, HELL NO!! What happens to the guys just not interested in searching the websites for changes and instead just play, how are we supposed to know what is going on. And while we are on this subject, you got a bunch of PKers on test that make it impossible to go around looking at changes and their effects on the environment. WHY? Because players are being run out of the places as simple as the newbies areas by paralyzing JACKASSES!! I realize it is also something to be tested, but these PKers aren't doing you any favors there.

NC-Austin, you guys are so Full of IT some times, ASK US WHAT WE WANT! Stop assuming things, you morons!!

May 30, 2002 03:33 pm ET (#74)

aupairKing
Loyal Fan
320 posts
03-11-02

I would like to announce that there should be a user protest! I would like everyone to spread the word that nobody should log on on June 3rd, next Monday. Let the Servers go down to zero users for a day to let NC-Austin know our disgust at the lack of Support and the refusal to listen to user input!!

May 30, 2002 03:41 pm ET (#75)

NordicGlory
Loyal Fan
77 posts
05-14-02

#68 Lovely, Cruelgame! Please post some more!

May 30, 2002 03:52 pm ET (#76)

VenomOfWest
Loyal Fan
36 posts
11-20-01

I almost re-activated my account when I saw all the changes being made and with the new episode looming, now I would just be afraid that the day I sign up they would take everything away again.

May 30, 2002 03:56 pm ET (#77)

Phyrexian
Loyal Fan
36 posts
05-16-02

Lostheaven, your the man. well spoken. NC, i know im mean to you (ppl who read my posts know ^_^) and i was angered by this. Even so, i realize what you were striving for here. It was a good idea, and you just need to fine tune it. Im a lvl 40 mage, and i want exp for killing giant soldier ants, cause im weak, and thats all i can kill effectively with a dog. (maybe higher now with dex/ac) all im saying, is maybe configure a method that depends on your ac, lvl, and hp..? and ppl, just think of the less exp loss as an event ^_^. Personally, thats what i thought it was to begin with. (it would be a good idea =/) Personally (and listen to this part) i think it should be 1/4 a person's level. THIS WOULD WORK OUT! 1/4 lvl 40=lvl 10 (as you should know -.-) a lvl 40 could still hunt giant ants w/o a penaly, and there would be less lvl 30 players hunting goblins, kobolds, orcs,(unless for alignment). You guys at NC have good intentions, but they just ned tweaking. *realizes shes lecturing* oops. sorry people ^_^. i just felt i needed to say: Don't be angry at NC, be understanding. They want to help the newbies too! like me ;) just sayiing, Thank You very much for BB update, Dex/ac, and bless of eva extension. (i'm still not your friend because of the summon update NC)=)
So, in closing, just re-do this, but at 1/4 instead of 2/3. It will work, and if not, The people on Global will tell you (anyone who heard me Yesterday ;))well, time to end this session of: Phyrexians Corner ^_^

May 30, 2002 04:17 pm ET (#78)

Dlirk
LC Reporter
75 posts
01-06-02

Personally, I don't care about the exp loss, and I'll have you know I've had four characters over level 48 and one at 49. I know it is very frustrating to die and level down from 49 to 48 or 48 to 47, but still. It is not that bad. I think the problem, the reason why ppl hunt low level monsters?

there is no stable set of 40+ monsters. If NC put in an area called like Teres Island or something where you had to be level 45 to just go there and every monster was 45 to 50 then I GUARENTEE I would hunt there because the experience would be sweet. That is the problem, there is no stable hunting area for a high level player with a good level base of monsters. I hunted for about 6 hours on a new knight HyoRi and I never noticed the exp changes, but I'd have loved to go to a new area to level faster.

May 30, 2002 08:33 pm ET (#79)

Darkweave
Loyal Fan
20 posts
04-18-02

Fix the exp loss. Yesterday sucked, forced to hunt in s a couple of areas to gain exp is just plain bull!! With yesterdays update the mainland caves offered me no exp whatsoever!! I'd have to wait for bosses to spawn to get exp, what a waste of time. Dv skellies only giving 40-50% of their exp come on!! How retarded do you have to be to see this screws high level players up the butt?!?!?! I also agree thast the current death penalty is totally unbalanced. To lose the same amount of exp at lvl 20 and 50 is so unbalnced it is beyond words. I think nc needs to pull their heads from their asses and put down the crack pipes and pay attention to the game as it is played in reality not the drug induced haze they look at it through. When I seen they removed the exp update I was very happy, but to punish us by reinstating the exp loss at death is just petty and the behavior of a child who can't admit they made a mistake that could have cost them their community of players. It's like they said "So we messed up, so screw you!!" Well to NC I say screw YOU. If you can't fix a game by using a cognitive thought process then there is no reason I should pay you.

May 30, 2002 11:35 pm ET (#80)

Irwin_Gamer
Loyal Fan
26 posts
05-07-02

When did the comment area become the NC sycophant venting area? And lostheaven? what kinda crack are you smoking? This update was not beautiful and 99% of the complainers as you call them saw it for exactly what it was. A stupid nerf. Unless some NC employee HiJacked Lostheavens name to spew this marketing crap at us. Unbeleivable... Ban Lostheaven please, its an imposter.

May 31, 2002 02:18 pm ET (#81)

TCUBED
Loyal Fan
109 posts
03-18-02

NC thought they could "hide" the exp update behind the dex/ac cuz thats what everyone was looking forward to, i really have a hard time beliveing that the staff there plays lineage, i think they all just play Ultima and when they have extra time they change some korean code over for us, i wish they would higher an expereinced player so once in awhile he/she could smack the fat cats in austin over their stupid heads~ blah i got it all out im so sick of the NC stupidity

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